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LT. COL. BERRY: And because I had the background of
electronic warfare, electronics, software electronics, and
they are highly technical. Plus I was in the field…in the
Ministry of Defence I was in DGQA. That is very important
factor for any procurement. You must already be knowing all
these things…
TEHELKA: Yeah.
LT.COL. BERRY: …very well aware. So there I was with
him for about almost three years. A little one month, month-and-a-half.
And there I had introduced Israel, in particular.
TEHELKA: Okay. Which company was this?
LT. COL. BERRY: Tadiran, Elisra, Symtech, Elbit…god
knows.
TEHELKA: Through Mr. Khanna?
LT. COL. BERRY: Yeah.
TEHELKA: He was the main dealer?
LT. COL. BERRY: (continuing): …see, now…after
that is important. So I got myself…you know…once you are just
working for agents, it's a different set-up because…. Agents,
what they do is, they normally try to go for…the big agents
I'm talking about….
TEHELKA: It's all illegal, right?
LT. COL. BERRY: Hmm?
TEHELKA: It's all…middlemen and all…illegal.
LT. COL. BERRY: It's all illegal.
TEHELKA: Okay.
LT. COL. BERRY: Because legally toh you are not allowed
to do…
TEHELKA: Yeah.
LT. COL. BERRY: …have at all.
TEHELKA: Okay, then?
LT. COL. BERRY: You are fully aware.
TEHELKA: Yeah, I am.
LT. COL. BERRY: But what they used to do is they get
into three-four companies. You give to one politician and
get three-four companies signed with you directly. So you're
loyal to nobody.
TEHELKA: Okay.
*
* *
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Colonel Berry talks about how defence middleman Vipin
Khanna is trying to sign on Major S.J. Singh for managing
the HHT business. Khanna, for a time, was in the enviable
position of being the middleman for both Thomson-CSF and
El-Op, both competitors of West End in the Hand-Held Thermal
Camera arena. Berry talks about how Khanna has done this
kind of thing in the past also. |
LT.
COL. BERRY: Now even Vipin has been trying to get him
for hand-held thermal imagers.
TEHELKA: For which company?
LT. COL. BERRY: See, Vipin has already signed…because
I know Vipin very well…
TEHELKA: Yeah.
LT.COL. BERRY: He has signed up with Thomson.
TEHELKA: CSF-Thomson.
LT. COL. BERRY: And he has also signed up with El-Op.
TEHELKA: Okay, both these guys.
LT. COL. BERRY (laughing): Both of them.
Because El-Op I know because I met the Israel…
TEHELKA: Yeah. So he is very dangerous. He has signed
up with all of them.
LT. COL. BERRY: Absolutely, absolutely. I mean…that's
why, in fact, I left him only for this reason. Because there
was one case of simulator…100 crores. I was handling Symtech
of Israel. And he brought in another Invertron company from
UK.
TEHELKA: Okay.
LT. COL. BERRY: So, you know, there was a tussle. And
as a…if you are an employee of a person of that nature, then
you have to bow to the…I mean, employer. You can't be saying….
Your own reputation goes for a six. Because what happened,
the Symtech people…when I had taken them to the Bharat Electronics,
which was a PSU…that chap happened to mention Invertron. The
guy who had accompanied me from Vipin's side. And there the
things went for a six. Because, even the guy whom you are
paying, he doesn't know that whether you are going to pay
him otherwise or not. Because he doesn't know which company
you are representing.
TEHELKA: Yeah…double-crossing!
LT. COL. BERRY: And Mr. Lodha was very excellent. I
mean, he understood the game very well. I wish he had…
TEHELKA: So do El-Op and CSF-Thomson know that Khanna
is doing this double-crossing?
LT. COL. BERRY: Now…see I tell you, Thomson earlier
man was probably not so intelligent, let me put it that way.
*
* *
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Colonel Berry also gives more details about the mysterious
Choudhary who was the key person in the Sukhoi deal. He
tells us that he is not clean in his dealings and the
'users' that helped make the deal happen are unhappy with
Choudhary. |
TEHELKA: I believe the new rising star is Choudhary.
LT. COL. BERRY: Yeah, yeah, yeah…
TEHELKA: … Sukhois!
LT. COL. BERRY: ... Choudhary…but he is not commanding
a good reputation because his brother, who is no more, was
the main guy earlier. And after his death some things have
become a little bad, in the sense because his brother used
to follow set ethics. People could stick on that.
TEHELKA: This Chaudhury's from Army background?
LT. COL. BERRY: Air Force background.
TEHELKA: Air Force background? What's his…?
LT. COL. BERRY: Not this one, the other one.
TEHELKA: Is this one a civilian?
LT. COL. BERRY: No, no, he is a civilian background
totally.
LT. COL. BERRY: And he…he…he…whatever he used to promise,
he used to give to the people.
TEHELKA: And this guy doesn't do it?
LT. COL. BERRY: And this guy doesn't. So there is a…
TEHELKA: Yeah.
LT. COL. BERRY: So that's why…. And what happens then
if one doesn't maintain the ethics, he can do maximum one
deal. After that…. I mean, people will just…. That's why even
his people, his brothers…they were staying with him whole...for
10 or 15 years. There was no problem. They were really looking
after everyone at every stage. Whatever was promised was given.
But this chap is having a bad name of late now. So this is…I
just want to tell you that thing. So one has to…
TEHELKA: But he did get the Sukhoi.
LT. COL. BERRY: Hmm?
TEHELKA: He did get the Sukhoi?
LT. COL. BERRY: Yeah, yeah, yeah, the Sukhoi…
TEHELKA: It's as big a deal as it gets.
LT. COL. BERRY: Yeah, yeah. It's a big deal, it's big
deal.
TEHELKA: What's the percentage?
LT. COL. BERRY: … but people are not happy. They are
not happy.
TEHELKA: Who is not happy?
LT. COL. BERRY: The users. The people who really got
him the deal. See, politicians only take the money as cut.
TEHELKA: Yeah.
LT. COL. BERRY: But others work for it.
TEHELKA: Yeah.
LT. COL. BERRY: So people who work for you…
T (interrupts): So what is the grapevine?
LT. COL. BERRY: Hmm?
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