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MAJ. S.J. SINGH: I belong to a place called Rae Bareilly.
LT.COL. BERRY: Indira Gandhi's…

MAJ. S.J. SINGH: Indira Gandhi, Rajiv Gandhi…Now Indira Gandhi's late husband Feroze Gandhi, I worked with him '52 and '57…
TEHELKA: Okay, that's excellent.

MAJ. S.J. SINGH: Okay. Indira Gandhi's family we knew inside out and they knew us inside out. We are ex-zamindars of that place. We don't belong to a pauper's family. Okay?
TEHELKA: Basically feudal landlords.

MAJ. S.J. SINGH: My educational background is…I am M.A. in English from Lucknow University and also M.Sc. in Military Science from Staff College of…
TEHELKA: You are from NDA or from SS?
MAJ. S.J. SINGH: No I am a direct entry, I am from the NCC.

*  *  *

MAJ. S.J. SINGH: From Rae Bareilly we shifted to Delhi in 1960. We migrated to Delhi from that time. I have…I was in Services, in Army. In '71 war, I became war casualty and was boarded out on medical grounds with 80 per cent disability. But no one can see I had any disability. I was injured twice in '65 war and '71 war and I was awarded… recommended for MVC. Then I was recommended for MVC again. So both the times, I got…barred but I don't write my army rank anything. I don't talk about my army background because that is a negative point to do. Because then you lose your access to friends. Today the last Chief Ved Malik was my coursemate. The present chief who has come was six months junior to me…Padmanabhan.

TEHELKA: You know, you give me example…some example, then only I can work out.
MAJ. S.J. SINGH: See, there are two things, which we should be very clear. One thing is that one needs to be honest and to be honest, it's not only good to be honest but it must also show to be honest…I've explained it, that is the purpose. No one can go to the court of law on the issue.

TEHELKA: Exactly, that is true.
MAJ. S.J. SINGH: Right, so it's only a reminder that this was the understanding between you and me…who's got the time and who's got the patience? Supposing it is a more of trust on which these deals are done. Something is going on now at the moment, the deal is…480 crores deal…the PNC is going on.

MAJ. S.J. SINGH: Right? They asked to drop down from 50 per cent…from the quoted price they offered to 10 per cent. Then they came to 20 per cent. They came down to 35 per cent. Now the gap is 20 to 35. Fifteen per cent gap now. The party approached, they approached minister, approached everyone, nothing happened because minister also knows that he cannot put his neck in a situation where he will be caught. And he is not the person who will ever put his neck. He is very clever.

TEHELKA: George Fernandes? Okay.
MAJ. S.J. SINGH: So he will never put, he knows his survival…he is a 4-man party. He knows where he can survive. So the answer was…so this party came they started offering me half per cent. So I said, "Are you joking with me?" Then they said, "One per cent." I said, "Still you are joking." I said, "Five per cent." So from 5 per cent they came to 3 per cent. So now it will be between 3, three-and-a-half per cent and our job is from 35 to bring it to 28. So 7 per cent we are saving you.
LT. COL. BERRY: They are getting extra margin there.
MAJ. S.J. SINGH: Out of that, I am only sharing half with you. Fifty per cent, fair or unfair.
LT. COL. BERRY: See, because it will reach that stage.
MAJ. S.J. SINGH: Fair or unfair.
TEHELKA: Fair, fair.

MAJ. S.J. SINGH: Okay, so we say give me a proof that you will give me this three-and-a-half per cent, and that proof can be given by the bank guarantee.

MAJ. S.J. SINGH: So now supposing they agree to three-and-a-half per cent, my gain out of that is half per cent. Three per cent will go to people.
TEHELKA: Those who are associated with you.

MAJ. S.J. SINGH: No, no, the chap who is doing the job.
LT. COL. BERRY: Who will give the guarantee of the additional samples.
TEHELKA: Okay, okay.

MAJ. S.J. SINGH: Who is the one who has to accept it, because he is the chairman of the PNC. Then in the PNC there is a financial controller…that fellow has to be taken into account. Then there are other people.

LT. COL. BERRY: There are a total of about 6-7 people there.
MAJ. S.J. SINGH: They have to be taken care of. Everyone gets his about .25, half per cent. It comes to half per cent. I get half per cent and I am happy with that.

TEHELKA: So what are the deals which Mr. Sahni is doing? Is he a more intelligent choice than Mr. Singh would be?
LT.COL. BERRY: I'll tell you, I'll tell you now. Let him [referring to waiter] just go, I'll tell you the complete story.

[Pause as waiter makes tea. Berry asks Tehelka whether he can get S. J. Singh to come directly to the room. Tehelka agrees. Berry calls S. J. Singh on his mobile.]

LT.COL. BERRY: So I was saying ki as far as…
TEHELKA: Who's the better choice?
LT.COL. BERRY: Better choice would be S.J. Singh. I will put it any day. Because S.J. Singh is a sub-agent of Sahni.

TEHELKA: Sub-agent to…?
LT.COL. BERRY: Sub-agent or partner to Sahni.

TEHELKA: Sahni?
LT.COL. BERRY: Haan. So main person is S.J. Singh. It is just Sahni the name. That is why he is ready to sign for six per cent. Otherwise you will have to give 10 to 12 per cent there.
TEHELKA: Okay.

LT.COL. BERRY: So…and then this is the trick of the trade, that one must get into…and for every political adjustments one must…one has to be very, very sure…

TEHELKA: So what are his contacts like? What kind of deals he has done?
LT.COL. BERRY: (showing TEHELKA another sheaf of papers): I…I'll tell you. These are the type of…where he has been directly involved and directly helped. And Krasnopol ammunition for artillery…150 crores.

TEHELKA: Krasnopol ammunition?
LT.COL. BERRY: Haan, yeah. It's a Russian company.

TEHELKA: Which year was this? LT.COL. BERRY: Although Sahni is supposed to be the main this thing, but actually…because I have been dealing with Sahni for a long time…almost 10 years or so…

TEHELKA: He did it? Which year was this?
LT.COL. BERRY: Just…I think about six months back or seven months back.

TEHELKA: Six months back?
LT.COL. BERRY: Something like that.

TEHELKA: Hundred and fifty crores?
LT.COL. BERRY: Yeah.

TEHELKA: What was the commission then?
LT.COL. BERRY: Again…this I am not very sure as to how much amount of commission…

TEHELKA: We will ask him.
LT.COL. BERRY: This S.J. Singh will be…to tell you better.

TEHELKA: What else?
LT.COL. BERRY: Cornetti for 250 crores, which was done directly by him when he was not a partner to Sahni.

TEHELKA: Okay.
LT.COL. BERRY: As a matter of fact even Vipin Khanna was looking for him to become a partner. Because he can sign the things and [makes a gesture]…so…