-14-

TEHELKA: Sir, Defence Minister, he will not take the money.
R.K. GUPTA: Who?

TEHELKA Defence Minister.
R.K. GUPTA: We have already tied with Jaya Jaitly.

TEHELKA: Tie-up?
R.K. GUPTA: Samata Party General Secretary.

TEHELKA: Okay.
R.K. GUPTA: Defence Minister. One or two per cent. We'll settle with Jaya Jaitly. It's her job to give him or not give him. Our file is signed. She takes the money.
TEHELKA: That's all.

[Gupta makes gesture]

R.K. GUPTA: Ranjan Bhattacharya is doing for himself. He is Prime Minister's son-in-law.
TEHELKA: Yeah.

R.K. GUPTA: You know that?
TEHELKA: PANT Sahib told me.

R.K. GUPTA: He is Prime Minister's son-in-law. I've cut him into pieces. I've gone through the party. PM can't say no. Party's getting 100 crores. He won't say, "No, my son-in-law's getting 100 crores. Leave it." We are his father's father [pointing to himself].

TEHELKA: Yeah.

R.K. GUPTA: And he doesn't know my name also, though he has been coming to my office hundred times. He doesn't know that my uncle has cut me to pieces. He calls me uncle. I've cut him to pieces. He doesn't know it. Who's the man who has taken half the order and we're left high and dry. He's still trying to find out who is the man behind it. He can't find out. If he find out then I'm not a good operator.

[T gets up and shakes Gupta's hand]

*  *  *

TEHELKA: Okay. No, the people told me. Mr. PANT also told me. In fact, users also told me that this man is behind CSF-Thomson.
R.K. GUPTA: Then they get more money.
TEHELKA: Yeah.

R.K. GUPTA: These generals-venerals, you keep…you strike them off. There's a question of fighting for the divide.
TEHELKA: And I got the information that CSF-Thomson is not allowiong to...West End into...enter the defence sector.

R.K. GUPTA: We will see.
TEHELKA: This is the...scenario.

R.K. GUPTA: That is…we have to fight for that. We would have fought against him and then got this order.

[Pause. T makes another drink]

TEHELKA: Ranjan is powerful man, hain?
R.K. GUPTA: Naturally.

TEHELKA: Last time PM visited in US…for that function. That time the CSF-Thomson people tie up with Ranjan in US.

R.K. GUPTA: They met the PM?
TEHELKA: Yeah, they met the PM.

[Pause]

TEHELKA: So, our people went there to met PM.
R.K. GUPTA: Aah.

TEHELKA: We won't allow to…(laughs)
R.K. GUPTA: You know...how to cut him into business. The party will first go to PM. "Party is getting so much of money from them. We want to do this work."

TEHELKA: Not individual?
R.K. GUPTA: Not individual.
TEHELKA: Party gets it.

R.K. GUPTA: The Prime Minister has no guts to say he should be given, not party.
TEHELKA: Naturally (laughs).

R.K. GUPTA: So we operate in a different manner.
TEHELKA: Yeah. Operate it through party…Okay.

R.K. GUPTA: And Ranjan knows my strength in the party. The RSS.
TEHELKA: That is the backbone of BJP.

R.K. GUPTA: Once he comes to know his uncle was operating behind the scene, he'll come running here that "Uncle, why are you doing this."

[Both laugh]

R.K. GUPTA: "You are not talking to your uncle. Uncle is bloody no man. You are the PM's son-in-law. Uncle has given his life for the this...party."
TEHELKA: Hmm.

R.K. GUPTA (pointing to his left leg): I have four bullet wounds here.
TEHELKA: Hmm?

R.K. GUPTA: I have four bullet wounds in this leg. It's all because of them. 1947…6th March, 1947. Riots. I got six, four bullet wounds here.
TEHELKA: Okay.

R.K. GUPTA: Atal-ji has been staying in my house for 17 years.
TEHELKA: Who? Atal-ji. Here?

R.K. GUPTA: Chandigarh. Here, he has come three-four times.

*  *  *

R.K. GUPTA: Sukhoi deal I got done.
TEHELKA: Okay. Sukhoi?

R.K. GUPTA: I got done.
TEHELKA: Russian deal? Sometime…?

R.K. GUPTA: I called them.
TEHELKA: Why? From Russian deal?

R.K. GUPTA: T-90 I got done.
TEHELKA: Okay.

R.K. GUPTA: They signed. They were very happy. They said, "It is very easy now." I said, "Look, you do like this, your files will be locked here." Again they…something went wrong with them. When the files were locked, then they came back. I said, "You can't eat up money like this. Because we are not eating your money ourselves. We have to pay to persons. The user will bloody well tell you if there are hundred defects in your product. Or bureaucracy will put a spoke in the wheel. Politicians will say it is not good. I told them, "You can't eat up people's money. Whom you have promised." So they came back to their senses.
TEHELKA: It's a game, basically.

R.K. GUPTA: They were here for seven days. They studied everything. Then they spoke to me, "Send your son. We'll do the agreement." I said, "First decide finally. So that he goes there, again you say 'No, no, no. This much percentage.'" I said, "Whatever was decided. We're not working for free. Our percentage, party percentage, bureaucracy. Everything should be first told on the telephone. Then we'll come."

[Pause]

R.K. GUPTA: After we bring up your project to a level… Then we can jointly sit and assess.
TEHELKA: Yeah.